I've experienced police violence myself. I've known other people who have experienced it. In my case I'm pretty white (mediteranean) and the others I know have copped it were white.
They only got covered because a white middle class doctor got hurt.
People who think the system will prosecute police are naive. The Integrity commissions are a scam. The onus is on victims to push hard for justice and when you don't have the resources nothing happens.
All I feel I can do is try and argue that we need proper oversight and real prosecution of police who commit crimes of assault and murder but I feel like I am arguing to the converted amongst those I know.
I'm going to admit I didn't know about Joyce Clarke until this article, and that both shames me and highlights the issue of getting the information out there. Deaths thousands of kilometres away with little to no reporting and a behind-closed-doors legal system makes it very difficult to even be aware of what is happening. Taking 2 US examples of Rodney King & George Floyd, it was the recording & public dissemination of the acts that triggered the responses. As you've pointed out, we have little evidence to show, and that makes it harder still. The violence may be normalised in a subset of our society, but don't write us all off just yet.
Great article. I’ve been looking for follow up articles of both cases but have found little. There has not been enough coverage. It’s a shameful truth that we haven’t mobilised in the same way to shout that Australia, we want no more deaths in custody.
It really is important to share this article. we have an obligation to mobilise the entire Australian community, to bear witness to black deaths in custody.
Thank you for reminding me of these 2 tragedies. I agree that such cases haven't received appropriate coverage, or the white outrage and support they deserved. Please keep us informed of the outcome. There may be more local white support for these 2 Aboriginal victims of police violence after this shocking case of George Floyd's cruel death. We must change the culture of police brutality towards Aboriginal people. Dallas
I care & I'm outraged that in this day & age people (white people) are so blind to these injustices. Why are we outraged about George Floyd but blind to black deaths in Aust.
Bear witness to what? I do not know circumstances surrounding the deaths you mention. We have a legal system to ultimately deal with such incidents especially when they involve police intervention. Whether the people involved are black, white or brindle there is a system of natural justice and with it burdens of proof. Most people do not understand how the system works and are very quick to jump to conclusions with very minimal information. There are many ramifications when the general public think they have a right to judge someone’s actions and the custodians of the system bend and flex to the knee jerk reactions of a few. The ultimate result is called anarchy and we are not far off even arrived now in meanopolis God help us as there is now not a decent soul on this earth that would in there right mind sign up to be s police officer anywhere. Sadly we still need them so the standards drop again and the spots get filled by sub par power seeking individuals that should have never been in law enforcement.
So to the bleating soft weak willed general public well done you are getting the police you deserve
It's not a knee jerk reaction to grieve a death nor is it to peacefully protest a desire for justice to be done. We all know the system we have is not perfect but one section of society should not be brutalized. Care, respect and fair treatment for all is not much to ask.
You sound like part of the problem not the solution. "I do not know circumstances surrounding the deaths you mention" - Of course you don't that's part of the problem. It's not reported, it's not front page news, it's rarely on TV news. You know what I mean? If it doesn't appear in front of me did it really happen?
Since 1788 policing has been focussed on protecting trespassers and their stolen property, and killing or gaoling the Rightful Owners. Their oath is "To Uphold Her Majesty's Peace" which they seem to interpret as meaning "Her Majesty wants a Terra Nullius."
Has there been any apology from the police about their part in the genocide? Have there been substantive "cultural change programs" for police in terms of how they interact with the true owners of these lands?
"Whether the people involved are black, white or brindle there is a system of natural justice and with it burdens of proof."
This is not a system of natural justice, it's the court system. There's nothing natural about it, it's entirely man made. When you have police as representatives of the state vs citizens - but PARTICULARLY marginalised citizens, there is a huge gap in the resources available to the parties. And what do you do when one party is dead and unable to speak?
You are so fuckin white ya make me sick n def ashamed ta even be put in your group by colour, thank the fuck i went ta uni, gettin a few degrees n eventually YOU WILL hear n acknowledge the undeniable facts of the openly racist society we live in. Any remember my name cause ill be out the fuckin front shovin in ya ignorant face
you are either here chosen to be ignorant or you were born ignorant. People like you make the world a bad place for everyone. The best day of your iife is going to be when you are sick and dying
These cases haven't had the same public profile as cases in US. That is the problem, we need to hear about them before we can react. Black lives matter to me, because all lives matter. 😥
Christine, a few things here. Firstly, 'all lives matter' is dismissive and wilfully ignores the basic premise of this article, and the point of the current protests in the US - that black lives are repeatedly ended in ways and scenarios that white lives never would be, without repercussions (and often they are ended BY systemically racist institutions like the police and the criminal justice system). So cool story if you have a theory that all lives matter, but maybe step back, and do some reading about why that's a really problematic response to people talking about actual (not theoretical) black lives that are being ended.
Secondly - to me it seems like one of Amy's main points is exactly what you're trying to use as an excuse - that these cases haven't had the same public profile as cases in the US, because 'Australians' don't get enraged by Aboriginal deaths.
I think you both may have misinterpreted her comment. I believe she may be agreeing with the sentiment of "Black Lives Matter" by noting that because all lives matter, 'Black lives matter' too. It might just be that her wording wasn't composed in the best way.
I understand what you are saying. I disagree that I have misinterpreted her comment though. I don't think she has bad intentions with what she is saying. However, there are a lot of discussions that have already been had about why the phrase and the concept of "all lives matter" is problematic and can be harmful. I'll quote from an article that I'm sure isn't the best writing there is on the topic, but it is what I could quickly find - there are plenty of analogies that people have put forth about this, such as:
"#AllLivesMatter is like I go to the Dr for a broken arm and he says 'All Bones Matter' ok but right now let's take care of this broken one... ...Those in the Black Lives Matter movement say black people are in immediate danger and need immediate attention, like the broken bone or house on fire. Saying 'All Lives Matter' in response would suggest to them that all people are in equal danger, invalidating the specific concerns of black people."
It's like the colourblind response ("I don't see colour/race"). People may say it with good intentions, but good intentions or bad, refusing to see colour/race means you are refusing to see, acknowledge, and work against the very real ways in which race impacts upon people.
I hear you, but i think again, you've conflated the composition of her words with the reactionary phrase "All lives matter". I don't think (assume) that she actually meant to reference ALM. If you take into consideration her whole comment, then i think it's easy to understand that she hopes to contribute to any cause that combats inequality. HOWEVER, if i'm wrong in my assumptions, then i hope this comment thread will provide Christine with some insight into why vocalising such a phrase is so problematic and counterproductive to any movement that advocates for the equality of ALL people.
ALSO, i think to the people that are somewhat attacking her, that you should also be aware of your own language and how you approach discourse regarding any disenfranchised group. Particularly if you are white. We're not always aware of the repercussions of our actions, and for all we know this could inhibit her (and others) from learning more, doing more. Its important to be allies and fight WITH people of colour, not FOR them (us). While its not our responsibility (poc) to educate, it's also not our responsibility to tame the fire that has been ignited by the misplaced rage of white people. Engage in dialogues that educate and provide people with information that disseminates more productively. Her noting that we don't have access to articles like Amy Mcquire's is a perfect example of an individual that may have a better understanding if she's provided with the content, information, conversation.
Yeah, I won't lie - "all lives matter" does trigger a pretty immediate reaction in me, which probably drew my focus in this instance and directed my response.
You make some really valid points about awareness of language and point of view when approaching discourse such as this, particularly as an ally.
I do still think it is valuable for these sorts of statements to be critiqued - albeit without 'igniting fires with misplaced rage'. Regardless of intention to reference ALM as a movement, it is a deflection and distraction to say that all lives matter in response to Amy's article about how this country values the lives of black people.
Just quickly Paula - you do not react - you act!!! Get out there, read indigenous media, go along ta protests if able, petitions are basically useless unless they can be individually sent on paper - would love ta see them opening hundreds of thousands hand signed petitions, not the generic kind on social media, n that shows ya went that lil bit further ta help make a difference. Be proactive if ya really care. Obviously if ya have skills ya can donate time ta help the cause, as ta find the money ta fight these arsehole cops, bring them out into the open, spread their racism (id say shame but they have none) far n wide, bring them ta justice, not through a police integrity commission(ya that works 🙄🙄) call every media outlet n get it covered, n a never give up attitude. Honestly, I have no idea how it feels ta be black, but I know right from wrong, n im willin ta make a difference
I'm sorry, but responding to someone with dismissiveness, snarkiness, assumption and insults - such as calling someone 'dumb' - doesn't help us have this conversation. Also, I didn't take Christine's comments dismissive to black lives matter at all. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Christine 💟
Hear Hear Amy, Thank you for writing this. The treatment and comparable instances happening here is encapsulated perfectly, unequivocally accurate, and even being aware of all that is outlined in this article, still its sobering when reading it. We have no real business being invested in the domestic issues within another country while giving nothing to those same issues present in our own. For shame indeed.
Mark, may I suggest that you read journalist Chloe Hooper's book The thin man about the murder of an Aboriginal man on Thursday Island and how things transpired subsequently. It may afford you some better insight into the systemic racism and injustice within a broken system. Otherwise you may read the excellent and beautifully produced Finding the Heart of the Nation by Thomas Mayor which tells the story of the Uluru Statement from the Heart and some of the stories of Abroriginal people around Australia and the daily injustices and violences they have to deal with.
Political/International Relations Major with Anthropology Minor n some Governance n Society subjects for fun university student. 51 years young. Diplomas for Mental Health, Youth Work, Drug n Alcohol, plus half way through a Degree in Social Work, changed my mind to study Politics ta make a difference behind the scenes supporting those who shall pull Australian up from its knees n represent all humans on this land, no matter race, sex, religion, colour lgbtqi or WTF else will show up ta try ta divide n conquer us ahead in a society giving billionaires EVERYTHING (3% of) n the other 97% the crumbs that fall of their tables while they work out how to kill or enslave us all (🤔🤔🤔 think that already happening). God Bless Australia n those that what real change n this so called LNP government charged with treason under the 1901 constitution (hmm 🤔 think the means hanging 😁😁). I am hear ta walk along side ya always!!!! Cheers me/myself/I n me minions of the night 🐈🐈🐈🐾🙏❤🙏😊✌✌✌✌✌
Please go get educated. Read widely. Listen to diverse voices. You only live one life, don't waste it on bullying and harassment. If you have had no lived experience as a person of colour, it would be helpful to try and understand if you can their experiences. Understand your privilege.
I've experienced police violence myself. I've known other people who have experienced it. In my case I'm pretty white (mediteranean) and the others I know have copped it were white.
And I know this country in a million ways treats black people and their culture and their rights as far less valuable than mine. So I don't feel any kind of surprise when I hear another story of what police have done to blackfellas including the stories in this article https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/thrown-punched-in-the-head-doctor-who-tried-to-help-bleeding-man-claims-police-turned-on-her-20190121-p50sn0.html
They only got covered because a white middle class doctor got hurt.
People who think the system will prosecute police are naive. The Integrity commissions are a scam. The onus is on victims to push hard for justice and when you don't have the resources nothing happens.
All I feel I can do is try and argue that we need proper oversight and real prosecution of police who commit crimes of assault and murder but I feel like I am arguing to the converted amongst those I know.
I'm going to admit I didn't know about Joyce Clarke until this article, and that both shames me and highlights the issue of getting the information out there. Deaths thousands of kilometres away with little to no reporting and a behind-closed-doors legal system makes it very difficult to even be aware of what is happening. Taking 2 US examples of Rodney King & George Floyd, it was the recording & public dissemination of the acts that triggered the responses. As you've pointed out, we have little evidence to show, and that makes it harder still. The violence may be normalised in a subset of our society, but don't write us all off just yet.
Great article. I’ve been looking for follow up articles of both cases but have found little. There has not been enough coverage. It’s a shameful truth that we haven’t mobilised in the same way to shout that Australia, we want no more deaths in custody.
It really is important to share this article. we have an obligation to mobilise the entire Australian community, to bear witness to black deaths in custody.
Thank you for writing this! Such an important article.
Thank you for reminding me of these 2 tragedies. I agree that such cases haven't received appropriate coverage, or the white outrage and support they deserved. Please keep us informed of the outcome. There may be more local white support for these 2 Aboriginal victims of police violence after this shocking case of George Floyd's cruel death. We must change the culture of police brutality towards Aboriginal people. Dallas
I care & I'm outraged that in this day & age people (white people) are so blind to these injustices. Why are we outraged about George Floyd but blind to black deaths in Aust.
Bear witness to what? I do not know circumstances surrounding the deaths you mention. We have a legal system to ultimately deal with such incidents especially when they involve police intervention. Whether the people involved are black, white or brindle there is a system of natural justice and with it burdens of proof. Most people do not understand how the system works and are very quick to jump to conclusions with very minimal information. There are many ramifications when the general public think they have a right to judge someone’s actions and the custodians of the system bend and flex to the knee jerk reactions of a few. The ultimate result is called anarchy and we are not far off even arrived now in meanopolis God help us as there is now not a decent soul on this earth that would in there right mind sign up to be s police officer anywhere. Sadly we still need them so the standards drop again and the spots get filled by sub par power seeking individuals that should have never been in law enforcement.
So to the bleating soft weak willed general public well done you are getting the police you deserve
It's not a knee jerk reaction to grieve a death nor is it to peacefully protest a desire for justice to be done. We all know the system we have is not perfect but one section of society should not be brutalized. Care, respect and fair treatment for all is not much to ask.
Seriously? The legal system is part of the institutional racism built over the past 200 years or so that Aboriginal Australians have to confront.
You sound like part of the problem not the solution. "I do not know circumstances surrounding the deaths you mention" - Of course you don't that's part of the problem. It's not reported, it's not front page news, it's rarely on TV news. You know what I mean? If it doesn't appear in front of me did it really happen?
Since 1788 policing has been focussed on protecting trespassers and their stolen property, and killing or gaoling the Rightful Owners. Their oath is "To Uphold Her Majesty's Peace" which they seem to interpret as meaning "Her Majesty wants a Terra Nullius."
Has there been any apology from the police about their part in the genocide? Have there been substantive "cultural change programs" for police in terms of how they interact with the true owners of these lands?
"Whether the people involved are black, white or brindle there is a system of natural justice and with it burdens of proof."
This is not a system of natural justice, it's the court system. There's nothing natural about it, it's entirely man made. When you have police as representatives of the state vs citizens - but PARTICULARLY marginalised citizens, there is a huge gap in the resources available to the parties. And what do you do when one party is dead and unable to speak?
“Natural justice” 😂😂😂 the only NATURAL in the JUSTICE you speak of is INJUSTICE for indigenous and PRIVILEGE for whites!
Oh so fucking cliched. You get a free life from the day you draw breath!
You are so fuckin white ya make me sick n def ashamed ta even be put in your group by colour, thank the fuck i went ta uni, gettin a few degrees n eventually YOU WILL hear n acknowledge the undeniable facts of the openly racist society we live in. Any remember my name cause ill be out the fuckin front shovin in ya ignorant face
It is this kind of intentional ignorance and openly unapologetic privilege that supports and continues racism and violence in our country.
Really, Mark? You’re definitely white, I can tell.
Sounds like Mark Latham
"I do not know the circumstances..." Bearing witness means taking the time t find out, but if its not for you don't bother
you are either here chosen to be ignorant or you were born ignorant. People like you make the world a bad place for everyone. The best day of your iife is going to be when you are sick and dying
These cases haven't had the same public profile as cases in US. That is the problem, we need to hear about them before we can react. Black lives matter to me, because all lives matter. 😥
Christine, a few things here. Firstly, 'all lives matter' is dismissive and wilfully ignores the basic premise of this article, and the point of the current protests in the US - that black lives are repeatedly ended in ways and scenarios that white lives never would be, without repercussions (and often they are ended BY systemically racist institutions like the police and the criminal justice system). So cool story if you have a theory that all lives matter, but maybe step back, and do some reading about why that's a really problematic response to people talking about actual (not theoretical) black lives that are being ended.
Secondly - to me it seems like one of Amy's main points is exactly what you're trying to use as an excuse - that these cases haven't had the same public profile as cases in the US, because 'Australians' don't get enraged by Aboriginal deaths.
I think you both may have misinterpreted her comment. I believe she may be agreeing with the sentiment of "Black Lives Matter" by noting that because all lives matter, 'Black lives matter' too. It might just be that her wording wasn't composed in the best way.
I understand what you are saying. I disagree that I have misinterpreted her comment though. I don't think she has bad intentions with what she is saying. However, there are a lot of discussions that have already been had about why the phrase and the concept of "all lives matter" is problematic and can be harmful. I'll quote from an article that I'm sure isn't the best writing there is on the topic, but it is what I could quickly find - there are plenty of analogies that people have put forth about this, such as:
"#AllLivesMatter is like I go to the Dr for a broken arm and he says 'All Bones Matter' ok but right now let's take care of this broken one... ...Those in the Black Lives Matter movement say black people are in immediate danger and need immediate attention, like the broken bone or house on fire. Saying 'All Lives Matter' in response would suggest to them that all people are in equal danger, invalidating the specific concerns of black people."
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/16/us/all-lives-matter-black-lives-matter.html
It's like the colourblind response ("I don't see colour/race"). People may say it with good intentions, but good intentions or bad, refusing to see colour/race means you are refusing to see, acknowledge, and work against the very real ways in which race impacts upon people.
I hear you, but i think again, you've conflated the composition of her words with the reactionary phrase "All lives matter". I don't think (assume) that she actually meant to reference ALM. If you take into consideration her whole comment, then i think it's easy to understand that she hopes to contribute to any cause that combats inequality. HOWEVER, if i'm wrong in my assumptions, then i hope this comment thread will provide Christine with some insight into why vocalising such a phrase is so problematic and counterproductive to any movement that advocates for the equality of ALL people.
ALSO, i think to the people that are somewhat attacking her, that you should also be aware of your own language and how you approach discourse regarding any disenfranchised group. Particularly if you are white. We're not always aware of the repercussions of our actions, and for all we know this could inhibit her (and others) from learning more, doing more. Its important to be allies and fight WITH people of colour, not FOR them (us). While its not our responsibility (poc) to educate, it's also not our responsibility to tame the fire that has been ignited by the misplaced rage of white people. Engage in dialogues that educate and provide people with information that disseminates more productively. Her noting that we don't have access to articles like Amy Mcquire's is a perfect example of an individual that may have a better understanding if she's provided with the content, information, conversation.
Yeah, I won't lie - "all lives matter" does trigger a pretty immediate reaction in me, which probably drew my focus in this instance and directed my response.
You make some really valid points about awareness of language and point of view when approaching discourse such as this, particularly as an ally.
I do still think it is valuable for these sorts of statements to be critiqued - albeit without 'igniting fires with misplaced rage'. Regardless of intention to reference ALM as a movement, it is a deflection and distraction to say that all lives matter in response to Amy's article about how this country values the lives of black people.
You're right, i don't disagree. It's a serious problem that requires unity to change.
❤️
Just quickly Paula - you do not react - you act!!! Get out there, read indigenous media, go along ta protests if able, petitions are basically useless unless they can be individually sent on paper - would love ta see them opening hundreds of thousands hand signed petitions, not the generic kind on social media, n that shows ya went that lil bit further ta help make a difference. Be proactive if ya really care. Obviously if ya have skills ya can donate time ta help the cause, as ta find the money ta fight these arsehole cops, bring them out into the open, spread their racism (id say shame but they have none) far n wide, bring them ta justice, not through a police integrity commission(ya that works 🙄🙄) call every media outlet n get it covered, n a never give up attitude. Honestly, I have no idea how it feels ta be black, but I know right from wrong, n im willin ta make a difference
I'm sorry, but responding to someone with dismissiveness, snarkiness, assumption and insults - such as calling someone 'dumb' - doesn't help us have this conversation. Also, I didn't take Christine's comments dismissive to black lives matter at all. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Christine 💟
Responding to “Black Lives Matter” by saying “All Lives Matter” is insensitive, tone-deaf and dumb. All lives can’t matter until black lives matter.
Thankyou for this information. I was not aware of any of this
Please share this with everyone.
🍀🙏🌈😍💚❇️
Hear Hear Amy, Thank you for writing this. The treatment and comparable instances happening here is encapsulated perfectly, unequivocally accurate, and even being aware of all that is outlined in this article, still its sobering when reading it. We have no real business being invested in the domestic issues within another country while giving nothing to those same issues present in our own. For shame indeed.
Maybe it is time for a riot here.
There have been. Do some research.
Thanks Amy, really good article. Hope you don't mind me posting this link here. https://www.prindlepost.org/2020/06/black-lives-matter-australia/
Mark, may I suggest that you read journalist Chloe Hooper's book The thin man about the murder of an Aboriginal man on Thursday Island and how things transpired subsequently. It may afford you some better insight into the systemic racism and injustice within a broken system. Otherwise you may read the excellent and beautifully produced Finding the Heart of the Nation by Thomas Mayor which tells the story of the Uluru Statement from the Heart and some of the stories of Abroriginal people around Australia and the daily injustices and violences they have to deal with.
Thank you Amy
Get a f'ing job and a life, political bullshit, we normal aussie people are over your snot!
Political/International Relations Major with Anthropology Minor n some Governance n Society subjects for fun university student. 51 years young. Diplomas for Mental Health, Youth Work, Drug n Alcohol, plus half way through a Degree in Social Work, changed my mind to study Politics ta make a difference behind the scenes supporting those who shall pull Australian up from its knees n represent all humans on this land, no matter race, sex, religion, colour lgbtqi or WTF else will show up ta try ta divide n conquer us ahead in a society giving billionaires EVERYTHING (3% of) n the other 97% the crumbs that fall of their tables while they work out how to kill or enslave us all (🤔🤔🤔 think that already happening). God Bless Australia n those that what real change n this so called LNP government charged with treason under the 1901 constitution (hmm 🤔 think the means hanging 😁😁). I am hear ta walk along side ya always!!!! Cheers me/myself/I n me minions of the night 🐈🐈🐈🐾🙏❤🙏😊✌✌✌✌✌
Please go get educated. Read widely. Listen to diverse voices. You only live one life, don't waste it on bullying and harassment. If you have had no lived experience as a person of colour, it would be helpful to try and understand if you can their experiences. Understand your privilege.
*yawn* ok boomer... we are over you normal aussie people too - do some reading, educate yourself, see if you can locate some critical thought